POLL TIME.

[ex-enables28.livejournal.com]

[Poll #1273213]

Posted with my account 'cause the mod one isn't + :| Anyway, guys, this is serious business-- we need to decide what we're gonna do. SO FEEDBACK IS WELCOME.

ONE JOURNAL PER PLAYER, PLEASE.

Comments

[prodigal-axe.livejournal.com]

As for punishments--I think that should be case by case.

[holy-fuuraiken.livejournal.com]

I agree, depends on the crime and the person.

[magicalquack.livejournal.com]

Agreed

[theforceoncrack.livejournal.com]

This <3

[leatherrr.livejournal.com]

Agreed on this one. Also, the jailtime and community service could be combined unless the character's out on good behavior or something; that'll cut down on the amount of guarding that needs to be done. (:?

[maskxdemasque.livejournal.com]

Agreed, but I think it should also depend on the person as well. There are some people who could, you know, break out of jail easily?

[keepyou-safe.livejournal.com]

Another suggestion for punishments: re-chipping. It's been suggested more than once IC, and while it isn't possible without the scientists help it's still a good punishment for those who abuse their powers without resorting to just killing them.

[ex-enables28.livejournal.com]

oh shit THAT WAS THE ONE I FORGOT TO PUT IN THE POLL. But we were thinking that coupled with another punishment.

[keepyou-safe.livejournal.com]

Well, yes...the death penalty would effectively put the chip back in someone. Though what if the crime wasn't severe enough to warrant a death? What if it was just property damage and no one was really hurt?

[ex-enables28.livejournal.com]

that's why it would probably be a case-by-case basis-- we just wanted to see what punishments people liked/had in mind.

[theforceoncrack.livejournal.com]

This <3

Also: isn't it possible without the scientists, theoretically....?

[ex-enables28.livejournal.com]

Not with how the chips are set up. And like we mentioned in chat last night, finding a chip doctor is pretty impossible at the moment.

[theforceoncrack.livejournal.com]

oohhhhhhh

/apps a healer and volunteers moa? :D

[panoplied.livejournal.com]

ALRIGHT UTTERLY CONFUSED HERE!

why are we deciding on a law system oocly? wouldn't this be something that the characters would have to decide on icly?

[ex-enables28.livejournal.com]

well, we're developing an OOC plan so that we have a basis of what to go with ICly. but we don't want to go deciding anything IC before the majority have decided OOCly, otherwise... it will end up in another leadership dealo like before, and people may be less inclined to listen.

[panoplied.livejournal.com]

but the people agreeing and deciding oocly aren't the characters who would be following and enforcing the laws? like my ideas about how discedo should be run are different from ichigo/bit/jyumonji/whatever so even if i said 'YEAH PUNISH THE CRIMINALS' i'd have ichigo going 'UHM WAIT' and bit not giving a shit and jyumonji doing whatever.

so i guess what i'm saying is, how would what is agreed upon here be worked into the game? wouldn't it be really ooc for characters to just.. agree with what was decided oocly? do you get what i'm saying?

[ex-enables28.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I do get what you're saying. But it's kind of a hard thing to do, really, without having these things enforced from the get-go. From what I understand, whoever ends up being head of the force is going to take these suggestions after we've narrowed them down to a few choices, and then from there things will be developed ICly with the help of the new force and the citizens-- for example, the scientists helping isn't going to be as easy as clicking your heels together. It will take a lot of work, and getting characters used to the idea of actually having a system after a year of nothing. XD

Obviously not everyone will agree, but that's why we're getting a gauge for what players would like to see first. Enforcing something that players weren't happy with would be a bad idea, and I think it would be easier to get the characters to move with, even if it would take a bit of time. Because a lot of people have been looking for some sort of system for months.

[angelic-lawyer.livejournal.com]

With the trials; it might be easier rather than having every single one played out, if the mun of a character wants to have their characters trial played out, they can let the players of the laywers know, and things go from there, otherwise have them played out behind scenes.

Playing out ever single one could be a bit daunting and/or time constricting.

[ex-enables28.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that sounds like a good plan. Due to conflicting timezones, it may also take too long to do, like for me I know that I'm on the same timezone as... only two other people in the community? And I play a defense lawyer. Even if I WANT to play out trials sometimes, it would probably take way too long. It'll just really depend on what the players involved want to do-- backdating and the like would be fine.

Playing out all the trials would be daunting, plus it would probably get boring after a while. XD

[momentarily.livejournal.com]

As far as I know, there's only one other person in the same timezone as me, so I'm completely hearing you there xD

Y-Yes, that entered my head as well xD This, if it happens, though, does mean I'm going to have to brush up on my legal speak and work out how the hell Naruse managed to get not guilty verdicts in the Japanese courts ._. xD

[ex-enables28.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that puts 2/3 defense lawyers in different timezones. XD NOT SO GOOD.

oh gosh I am not looking forward to that very much. orz I mean I know Phoenix Wright trials are simplified a lot, but I have to at least pretend to know what I'm talking about xDDD

[momentarily.livejournal.com]

Pfft. Clearly we're awesome for it. Somehow.

I have a feeling I'm going to be wiki'ing various tihngs, and then JUST STARING AT THE SCREEN IN CONFUSION. The only things I know about law have come from politics class and... watching JAG and NCIS orz Military legal proceedings, I think, will not help me here xD

We didn't even see any actual court cases in Maou. There was the end of one court case in the very first episode that consisted entirely of 'omg Naruse you're amazing jgklfgjdl angel lawyer' xDD;;

[ex-enables28.livejournal.com]

Defense lawyers are deliciously foreign?

Maybe we should compile a list of basics in the forms of links and summaries in the OOC community for everyone to go off of, otherwise it might end up being too confusing. HAHAH NCIS win ♥ Yeah I don't think tv will help us here, sadly. Phoenix won't be able to cross examine his ways out of holes here. ):

[momentarily.livejournal.com]

Blatantly xD

That would be a really good idea, actually. Then everyone would be working off the same structure and there would be more continuity and... things. Like you said, basically just less confusing xD;

[ex-enables28.livejournal.com]

JUST AS PLANNED.

Well, I'm entirely restless, and might start taking a look tonight. We'll probably post it along with the verdict for these polls after a couple of days. Not sure how long we should keep them open to vote, but we'll see.

[theforceoncrack.livejournal.com]

I do personally like the idea of in-game trials, because homgPhoenixWriiiiiiiiiight but I can see where it would be hard to play it out. XD So, I think either way would work?

[bakuhatsushinji.livejournal.com]

I think in-game trials would be good but orz, depending on how many? Not every single one, particularly as timezones et al would infringe on how quickly they'd be completed and stuff. If there were to be a lot of trials, that could quickly become Not Fun :(

And, perhaps, not everyone who has characters that would be put on trial would want to play out a trial xD;

[dreamermoa.livejournal.com]

That's true XD Well, then, having the option is best :>

[leatherrr.livejournal.com]

Hmmm. Maybe only the crimes that warrant extensive punishment/sentencing--such as murder cases, w/e, should be brought to trial? Like minor things like stealing or something could get by without a trial. The real-world court filters out a lot of crap with plea bargains, so we could probably do the same in Disc unless the players really want a trial for a minor crime. :D;

[theforceoncrack.livejournal.com]

Molly was confused by the last question. D:

[ex-enables28.livejournal.com]

Well, there are a number of ways that the law can be enforced-- we're asking people how it wants to be done. Like are the police force going to do it, are the scientists, etc.

[theforceoncrack.livejournal.com]

OHHH mmmm I think the police should doit, with maybe some halp from the scientists if they cant put the chips back in themselves. :>

[leatherrr.livejournal.com]

Haha, walking into this right off is a little confusing, but I'll try to give a few thoughts, since I'm playing the nosy jerk Mello and I feel like I should contribute or something. orz

In terms of a law system, I'd think the formal system should only govern things that would affect the community on a larger scale? Such as, for example--the mass murders. But what about deliberately demolishing living areas or supply storage? Petty thievery? Maybe there could be a sort of neighborhood watch/informal thing to deal with the more mundane acts of destruction/etc.

Another thing--what about characters that are repeatedly shown to be dangerous or imbalanced? In the past, characters have tried imprisoning them, warning the community against them, etc. etc.; re-chipping could probably work well here, but maybe not entirely, since there will always be some way of getting the chip out unless we are implementing permanent re-chipping. :/;; Also, the death penalty--the characters don't know for certain exactly how many extra lives they've got (from what I've seen it's mostly speculation that the scientists will stop reviving them at some point), and while that may be an effective deterrent, maybe a confirmation from the scientists that you will be dead permanently at some point will reinforce the weight of that particular sentence.

Trespassing. Would the police force also be dealing with characters that are complaining about others encroaching on/invading their space? Disc's living situation's been pretty fluid so far, but there are definitely invite-only living areas, so I'm not sure if that would be within the jurisdiction of the police force (if only to prevent fights and further destruction from occurring), or if it would be left up to the characters involved.

I guess my overall concern is the exact scope of the police force's duties, how much authority they'd have--since authority in Disc at the moment, despite all appearances, comes from who's stronger (physically, currently, but once the power limiters come off...)--so all the paperwork in the world isn't going to help unless the police force has some power on their side. The scientists are a good bet, but might also become a dividing force--there are definitely characters who don't trust the scientists, so that might also undermine the credibility of the police force.

alfjldjf;ajsd tl;dr trying to establish an authority in a fucked-up city is really goddamn complicated. :||| Maybe they need to draft up a charter of rights or something first LMFAO

[leatherrr.livejournal.com]

P.S. Oh jesus somebody slap me next time I hit y'all with that much tl;dr at once. :|

[ex-enables28.livejournal.com]

Yeah, we're not looking for an all-encompassing law. It would make things way too difficult, and way too hard to play off of. I think that Bruce was planning to set up a watch of some kind, and considering he's BATMAN, it might be a good way to combat the smaller crimes.

If the scientists do get involved, then they will confirm the "not coming back" theory if the death penalty is used as an option. Because hey, it's not exactly the best thing to think about, especially for criminals that have already died within the city before. Re-chipping is probably going to be a requirement for murderers, and then they'll get slapped with another option-- death penalty, community service, whatever-- depending on how bad things are. And there's also a limit on how many times you can get your chips removed before the scientists inflict a punishment, so that's also worth looking into.

The force would probably only get involved with tresspassing if it got violent-- if there was a watch group, then someone there could take care if it. Like, the watch group could get involved with the church dispute that just happened, but the police force would have to take on the auditorium dealo. It just realy depends on the scope of the accident.

They won't have absolute authority. If the scientists are helping out with this, then they're the ones that are going to have the most power. And frankly, we can't make the force work. So it will be successful depending on how many people are actually going to listen to it. A lot of people don't trust the scientists, that's true, but I think that a lot of characters would appreciate them helping to move to make the city a more safe place for them, so that they don't have to constantly worry about getting killed. A lot of people are only mad at the scientists because they never help, so maybe this could be a turnaround. XD

Yeah, it's going to take a lot of time to work it in ICly. But I think we can do it. An OOC brainstorm was needed first, though, so that we had something to go off of.

[leatherrr.livejournal.com]

BATMAN as the head of the neighborhood watch sldjflasjkdf XD That would be amazing.

So, possible confirmations of the 'not coming back' and 'eventual chip punishment' theories? 8D Progress! Always good. Mello will be pleased. ♥ Once he. Actually gets that information. OTL

Yeah, I think divvying up the enforcement between the formal police force and a sort of citizens' group might be best. That way the rest of the community still has some leeway to get involved in deciding how to deal with both criminals and people who are just disturbances. I think finding a balance in that would help make sure there aren't leadership issues like in the past, while at the same time finally giving the law a more coherent system. \o/ If that. Made any sense sob.

Well, we seem to be stocking up on lawyers. XD Always a step in the right direction. And in terms of the scientists, I'm mostly speaking from a personal level too, I guess, because my character might cooperate eventually if it's advantageous, but 'what kind of fucking idiot ever trusts the asses who kidnapped them and then rain shit from the sky to pacify them' is pretty much his reasoning. XD So I figure he can't be alone in the city in that. The danger of having a real law system is that the RP might get too one-sided, which is why still having room for vigilantes is, I think, important. o/

And, now that I think about it, maybe getting a charter of rights drawn up wouldn't be such a bad idea, lol. Just to let the citizens know exactly what they can expect in terms of benefits if they decide to cooperate with the police force, and then let folks decide for themselves. Also, in terms of communication, I say having a general police contact post is a great idea, sort of like an IC/OOC 911? The players on the police force can keep that post tracked, and calls can come in either IC or OOC format, etc. That doesn't preclude alerting the OOC comm as well (you can never communicate too much XD), but I thought that would be an interesting way of doing it. The scientists could maybe even set up a special channel on the communicators; it might also help with privacy/preventing mass panic with random accidental voice posts of people dying (of course, if the players are aiming for mass panic, accidents happen).

[rex-britanniae.livejournal.com]

Responded with the wrong journal...derp. LJ Login's kind of wigging out for me. *cough* Anyway.

RPing out trials: depends on what type of trial it is and the players involved. RPing out every little trial would get tedious, but if it's something that involves a lot of characters and would have a large impact on them, then hat's something that you'll probably want RPed out.

Punishments: agreeing with case-by-case basis. Something like stealing might mean helping Nani clean out the community kitchen, while something like murder earns the equivalent of some hard labour. Or bring back the stocks!

Law enforcement: this is kind of tricky, since the whole nature of laws is that everyone has to obey them, but ICly not every character would do so. Characters from lawless worlds wouldn't be used to them, and it would not be fair to their players to be constantly punished for acting ICly.

I guess in this case, the "laws apply to everyone" could be how the law is established in-game, while individual players decide whether or not their characters will abide by them and work out with law enforcement how much they are willing to have their characters caught/punished/etc.

[omniconcert.livejournal.com]

Eye for an eye.

[otheboysawonder.livejournal.com]

LEAVES THE WORLD BLIND, AHYUCKAHYUCK.

[omniconcert.livejournal.com]

IT ALSO TEACHES THE WORLD NOT TO TAKE OTHER PEOPLE'S EYES.


ps: give me back stan nao plx

[otheboysawonder.livejournal.com]

BUT I NEED THOSE EYES FOR MY VOODOO.

ps: No. He's a hor.

[omniconcert.livejournal.com]

WELL, YOU SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THAT BEFORE HAND.

pps: i will not hesitate to fuck you up.